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Happy Plastic Paddy Day

America is fucking insane about "I once smelt Irish Whiskey so I'm Offically Irish" Day.

Just don't get me started... the first time someone pinches me on St Pads for not wearing Green is the day I get arrested for beating someone with a nice Orange traffic cone "because I'm English and it's symbolic."

Fuckers.

(previously posted as a comment in ms_violet's journal)

Comments

( 48 comments — Leave a comment )
rinnywee
17th Mar, 2006 20:46 (UTC)
Why's it such a bad thing?
(Deleted comment)
rinnywee
17th Mar, 2006 21:59 (UTC)
Wtf? Pinching? Must be some weird US thing, cause in Australia St Paddy's Day is about celebrating your Irish heritage. Sure people get drunk, but it's Australia.

Here in France, it's about celebrating Irish culture. The French LOVE to discover new cultures, and something like St Patrick's Day is just what they love to do with Irish music in the pubs and food and dancing and all sorts of stuff.
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:42 (UTC)
Yeah, the pinching thing is just stupid. Kids victimising each other is a wierd tradition..

It's stuff like that which prompted the "America is insane" part of the post.
rinnywee
18th Mar, 2006 10:46 (UTC)
Never heard of it before! How fucking weird. I guess in Australia if a kid did that the other kid would just deck them.
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:54 (UTC)
Yup! I thought I go the more symbolic route for humours sake in my post tho! ;)
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:09 (UTC)
St Pads? There's nothing intrinsicly bad about it. It's just... over the top.

Maybe the post sounds more grumpy than I actually am about it - I have nothing against using it as an excuse to have a good time (though the pinching thing is stupid). I just ended up seeing 30 consecutive posts on my friends list about it, and so this comment came out after that.

I DO think it's wierd to just use St Pads as an excuse for it, you don't see that happen with any other saint. It's an odd situation. Eventually St Patrick will also be the patron saint of whiskey! ;)
rinnywee
18th Mar, 2006 10:20 (UTC)
But it's a celebration of Ireland and all things Irish. As St Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland, then it's as good a day as any. Sure it came about from the Irish Catholic immigrants to the US wanting a day in which they could really celebrate their heritage, but to me that's great.

No problem with a bunch of posts in my friend's list, people like St Patrick's Day, it makes people smile to hear all the jokes abou leprechauns and lucky charms and Guinness.

Your post was one of vitriolic criticism of people doing something harmless that they enjoy. Stinks of elitism to me.
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:38 (UTC)
Correction: it should be a celebration of Ireland and all things Irish. I never said I had anything against that.

However what I was complaining about was that for many people it's a token gesture at best, at worst it's just an excuse to get drunk. That's not celebrating Ireland, Irishness, or anything else. If anything that sort of behavior increases the perception of stereotypes and is damaging.

That is if you want to read into it a lot. Frankly, all I was doing was making a joke pointing out the over-the-top nature of the "celebrations" and the fact that I'm English so its doubly pointless for me, technically.

There was no serious intent behind any of it.
rinnywee
18th Mar, 2006 10:44 (UTC)
at worst it's just an excuse to get drunk

That could be said for *any* day in which some form of celebration occurs. Hell one of my relatives (now dead) used Christmas as an excuse to get totally blatted.

Yeah it can push stereotypes to the bad extreme, but then the same can be said for football supporters, but I think most people realise that in that case it's a minority who act like that. Just like on St Paddy's it's a minority who get pissed, and break shit all in the name of Ireland!

I can't think too straight, right now, so my debating skills are down slightly. This is because I've got Tirian and we're playing Guess Who? at the same time. o_O
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:58 (UTC)
Ah, but if I was to ask you to do an indenti-kit you'd be fine? ;)

Yes any celebration can be used as that, but it seems that the vast majority use St Pads for that. Certainly the most visible celbrations anyhow, with a lot of people defending it. At least in football you get people decrying the idiots, or doing something about them - they aren't acceptable.

With St Pads it's not only acceptable, it's defended. That's why it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Even though I have nothing against the idea of it, the actuallity of it is less than ideal.
rinnywee
18th Mar, 2006 10:27 (UTC)
This belongs here:

And before that other person who blasted someone in the comments here replies to me:
1. Sod off and don't bother;
2. Greg and I debate shit like this all the time;
3. Sod off again.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 19:15 (UTC)
piss off, yourself ;)
rinnywee
18th Mar, 2006 19:20 (UTC)
Ghehe
I said sod, not piss. *hurt feelings*

:P
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 19:24 (UTC)
Re: Ghehe
couldn't remember which was worse, sorry!



hahahaha
bodelian
17th Mar, 2006 20:46 (UTC)
Or you could just wear green in atonement for English oppression over the years?

;)

Don't hurt me.
rinnywee
17th Mar, 2006 20:46 (UTC)
Word. :D
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:05 (UTC)
Haha, concidering Miriam and I have a plan to take over Gaylords on July 4th with a Union Jack claiming "this territory for King George" I somehow think that would be out of character ;)
caramida
17th Mar, 2006 21:48 (UTC)
I hear what you're saying, unfortunately, many of these folks have never e'en smelt Irish whiskey. Why would a God-fearin' 'Murican want to import whiskey when we have perfectly good (sic) Jack Daniels right here?

Besides, everyone is Irish on Saint Patrick's Day, I'm told. Well, excepting the English, of course. ;)

Simply put, St. Paddy's is the American version of Cinco de Mayo. There's an actual celebration for people who know what's what, but for most folk, sadly, it's an excuse to drink more than you ought, with special dispensation for the holiday. Come to think of it, so's Cinco de Mayo.

For the rest of the world, it's a demonstration of how, world power or no, American's can't hold their liquor.
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:44 (UTC)
I've not had much experience with Cinco do Mayo, other than it sounds delicious ;)

The Day Of The Dead seemed to be conducted pretty well though, everyone was really into it for the right reasons it seemed.

And ugh.. Jack Daniels... ugh.
elsh
17th Mar, 2006 21:51 (UTC)
Your post is hurtful. My ancestors are Irish and so are many other people's here in America. Seems like you just have certain issues with Americans in general.

I didn't even remember it was St. Patrick's Day today, but if I felt like going all out and celebrating, who the fuck are you to tell me not to or that it's crazy or foolish? It doesn't affect or hurt you, so get off it already.

Similarly, are you Catholic? You celebrate St. Valentine's Day. Christmas is also a religious holiday. And you don't have to be Wiccan to celebrate Halloween.

My last name was formerly Connally and my own father's name is the same as this holiday's. Irish enough for me. People like feeling a connection with their past and I can trace my family back to Cork. But I don't even need these facts to enjoy a holiday if I wish to do so.

Sorry I sound upset, but I have seen you say similar things in the past and it's just rude. There's no reason for it. It doesn't harm you.
rinnywee
17th Mar, 2006 23:16 (UTC)
For me it's about celebrating my heritage, just as on the Swedish national holiday I celebrate that part of my ancestry, Australia Day is about the fact that I'm an Aussie as are my immediate and not too distant family, same goes for the rest of my ancestry.

Family history is very important for me, and I am bloody proud of every bit of it. If a day like St Paddy's Day makes me, and other people, think more about this kind of thing, or anything to do with Ireland, then imo it's only a good thing.

So what if they get drunk? If it gets people out, socialising and having a good time, then I don't see a problem with it and certainly wouldn't start pointing fingers.
elsh
17th Mar, 2006 23:22 (UTC)
Completely agreed!
rinnywee
18th Mar, 2006 10:26 (UTC)
And before that other person who blasted someone in the comments here replies to me:
1. Sod off and don't bother;
2. Greg and I debate shit like this all the time;
3. Sod off again.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 01:43 (UTC)
i have Irish ancestors, was raised Catholic, and am an American but i've NEVER agreed with and found it hurtful, disrespectful, and rude for the pinching that takes place on St. Patrick's Day if you don't wear green. so who the fuck are you to tell someone to "get off it" if they don't like having their personal space violated?

waaahh go cry me a fucking river for your own brand of rudeness and how i may have been hurtful toward you for replying.

otherwise, if people want to get piss-drunk on St. Patrick's Day or Cinco de Mayo, all the better for the bars and the wait/er/ess's tips at the end of the day. where i live people scream "whoo" as they stagger out of bars on a nightly basis. doesn't mean i wouldn't love to own a pellet gun.
elsh
18th Mar, 2006 03:06 (UTC)
Oh fuck off. Get your head out of your arse. I never said anything about pinching being right or nice.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 03:09 (UTC)
i fuck off just about every day, thank you.

i think you might just happen to have your head shoved up my ass. kindly find some other stinkhole to insert your nostrils in.

you might consider reading past the initial blanket statements at the beginning of an entry and not reacting off your hip holster, my wee little goblin.
elsh
18th Mar, 2006 03:13 (UTC)
Wow, you're so stupid I have nothing left to say to you. I don't need to waste my time. You could admit you were wrong with your comment because you went off on me for something I didn't even say, but you're clearly too retarded for that.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 03:22 (UTC)
fuck you back, bitch.
you missed the point of his post and took it to some level that not all of us agreed to, and ignored the basic points he made. but you are obviously so full of yourself that i'm just enjoying you being a retard in your own special way.
elsh
18th Mar, 2006 03:27 (UTC)
Re: fuck you back, bitch.
He made two separate statements, dumbass. The pinching not to do with the first. I'm done replying to you since you obviously don't have a brain and I won't read any replies.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 03:34 (UTC)
.
so in my reply i brought them both together. i have to admit that i like your icons even if you're pretty ignorant.
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:45 (UTC)
Judged purely on LJ icons - you win this entire exchange for this icon. It's great. :)
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:22 (UTC)
Ok, I won't get into the whole ancestors thing, because that's another conversation. If you pay attention to my post you'll see I'm not refering to Irish people, or people who have a genuine (or at least some kind of sensible) reason to celebrate St Patricks Day.

I'm refering to the wierd over-the-top fakery that is associated with it, especially the wierd abusive tradition (kids pinching each other? Thats just bullying).

I'm not catholic no, I'm not any specific religeon. To say I celebrate Valentines Day is a bit of a stretch. I use it as an excuse to celebrate whoever I'm with, and I also lampoon it as "Bacontine Day" with Miriam, so there's not much reverence there. Christmas is also an "offical" holiday. It's sactioned by the government, and I don't celbrate the birth of a jewish carpenter on it. I give and recieve presents, and eat food - which is actually a spin off of pagan winter solstice celebrations that became entwined with "Christmas". Most of what people would term Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity really.

Same with Halloween. Why on earth would you have to be a Wiccan? Halloween is a Christian holiday, but again - all dressed up in its folk-pagan pagentry. It's about death and spooks. Nothing to do with specific religions.

Sorry if I upset you but a) The US does go a bit over the top about it, and also b) I'm English, and I was making a joke about that. If any group of people can historically say "fuck it, nothing to do with me" about Ireland/Irish Celebrations it's us.

No it doesn't harm me, but that's no reason not to post on LJ about an opinion, be it serious or not, on a subject is it? I won't shy away from posting my opinions on my LJ and neither should you ;) That said, I always try to rationalise things I post that are serious. I thought this was obviously a joke, and so didn't bother - sorry if that wasn't clear.
elsh
18th Mar, 2006 12:30 (UTC)
It's alright. I understand now. I'm sorry if I overreacted. It wasn't clear to me what you meant. But seriously, it's not just Americans that get excited about St Patrick's Day for no reason at all.

*hugs*

(oh and sorry about that argument, that person really pissed me off.)
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 12:34 (UTC)
No, it's not just Americans, but the excesses are most apparent (and celebrated) over there.

But yeah, no problems ;)
miriammiriam
19th Mar, 2006 00:38 (UTC)
OMG it's BACON day. NOT bacontine day. thats so rude and direspectful to my beliefs.
winters_edge
17th Mar, 2006 22:08 (UTC)
Hey, I go around explaining to people that they have the option to wear orange today. I never have figured out why it's all about the Catholics when there are tons of Protestants in this nation, too. (Nothing against the Catholics, but people glom onto the Irish part, not the "St. Patrick" part, so it makes no sense to me.)
bodelian
17th Mar, 2006 22:20 (UTC)
Well, if you want to start a riot you can wear orange today.
winters_edge
18th Mar, 2006 04:28 (UTC)
Good one! :)
machine_logic
18th Mar, 2006 03:19 (UTC)
Well, Saint Patrick wasn't exactly Protestant.

By the way, that's the exact reason I'm wearing orange today.
winters_edge
18th Mar, 2006 04:36 (UTC)
It's all just silly in the end, except if you're truly Irish and living/lived it all. Honestly, when I first started saying anything about orange, it was because I was so frustrated with being pinched and punched over a holiday celebrated by people who were neither Irish nor Catholic and might as well have been mixing metaphors...
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:24 (UTC)
"traditionally" the Protestants are the English invaders. Sort of anyhow. Orange is more the colour of "the other side" so to speak. William of Orange and all that...

Hense the joke about the orange traffic cone of course...
rethought
18th Mar, 2006 00:17 (UTC)
St. P's day has always been the day that we (my sibs and I) come together to celebrate our family.

Our ancestors, who were very much right-off-the-boat Irish, did all they could to hide their Irish traits. They only held onto the ones that were part of internal family life. They probably wouldn't approve of our celebrating the date and acknowledging it as intrinsically Irish.

Since St. P's day is the day we picked for this and it's something I do just for the benefit of myself, Dane, and Lynn...I've not really done anything today. No green, no whisky, no goofy hat. If I'm with them next year at this time, I'll celebrate in the way we have for 6 years previous.

That being said, I did have a Guiness tonight. But, I always have Guiness after curry. That has nothing to do with the date. :)

Give the Americans you know a chance, we're not all completely mad. (Well, sometimes, but not always in the stereotypical ways... ;) )
redthought
18th Mar, 2006 00:29 (UTC)
Yeah, without the Jyll-biscuit, there was no celebration today... we went to Ankar's instead... mmmm cheese sandwich.

I don't really see celebrating St. Patrick's Day as an American any different than celebrating Cinco de Mayo as an American. But I guess I get a free pass on that one, since I speak Spanish. If you speak gaelic, can you celebrate St. Patrick's Day as an American?
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:31 (UTC)
Oh I know, the post wasn't a condemnation of the concept of St Patricks Day or of Irish people, or of people of Irish descent... even if some people seem to have taken it that way.

Nothing wrong at all with celebrating your herritage. It's just mutated into "Spring Break: Irish Edition" seemingly for a lot of people, and especially over there.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 01:50 (UTC)
i had my Irish Whisky (Jamesons) and my Bailey's in my coffee last night. i think that's good enough.


but then again, i'm the Irish one, so i can't go around saying "do you have any Irish in you? would you like some?" and get my ass kicked by a mob of rightfully pissed off women (because odds are i wouldn't make a hot man). my brothers on my mom's side, however, could if they so chose. and if i heard them say that, I'D be the one delivering the beating in behalf of the female species. heh.
darkcryst
18th Mar, 2006 10:49 (UTC)
Yeah.. see that's more my point - the way it has become an excuse for excess and debauched behavior, especially in the states, rather than a celebration of Ireland/Irish People.
a_muse_d
18th Mar, 2006 19:20 (UTC)
i'm glad we agree :)
( 48 comments — Leave a comment )