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The Controversial Post

There's a lot of fuss about gay marriage in the states at the moment.

Most of the hysteria is being driven by religeous extremists. Oh, that would be Christian extremists btw, being an asshole isn't limited to those of non-middle-class, middle-eastern decent of cource. Not that most media outlets seem to realise that. 'Religieous Right' is a term that is used for these people, which is stupid. They aren't right wing (whatever that is in any real terms) they are extremists. Plain and simple.

But yes, gay marriage. The right for gay men and women everywhere to have the same rights and straight men and women. Sounds pretty simple don't you think? Can you descriminate against gay people just because they do something you don't like? Legally I mean.

Obviously people can discriminate against them if they decide to. Hell.. I can't wear trainers in a nightclub, thats footwear discrimination. Doesn't of cource mean that it makes sense, or the reasons behind the descrimination are sound.

This is usually when biblical reasons start being cited.

First of all, biblical experts still have never agreed what exactly the details of Sodom and Gomorrah mean. Study after study changes interpritaion of the passages. So using that is silly. However, let us use the fall back of Christian Dogma: The Church Says its that, so it will be held true by God.

Fine. Ok.. and there's also that bit from Leviticus about "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination;" Ok.. so they have few biblical lines backing up their views. At least I can see where they got the ideas from.

So everything the church says is law, and the bible is sanctioned by the church. So, the Bible is the offical, and so correct, Word Of God. See this is where things get a little tricky for extremists. Especially if they are using the bible as a defence to stop gay marriage.

Ignoring for the moment that it doesn't matter ONE SINGLE FUCKING BIT what the bible says, as the US (or anywhere else where there the press is atm) is NOT a Christian state, that it is NOT a restrictive extremist goverment. It is not, point of fact, the type of religeous extremist state that it has recently been devoted to calling dangerous and opressing peoples rights.

At least not yet.

Yes, ignoring that.. what else does the bible say about marriage?

Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21) - remember men, having affairs is allowed by God. Women? Well you'll be stoned to death if you do it. Sorry.

A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21) - Oh dear, looks like Texas isn't going to be the only state with a high execution rate.*

Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9) - So as most gay couples could only get married this year (most still can't) the 25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime isn't gay couples. Neither are the over 1million divorces each year (and climbing).** Oh and incidentally, divorce rates among conservative Christians were much higher than for other groups.***

I've not even mentioned REALLY stupid thinks like a brother having to marry his siblings widow or forfeit a shoe (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10). I could get silly and point out that in lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even if he had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36)

Of cource that might be stretching it a bit, as its less a law, more an illustrative story. Mind you, its in the bible, it mut be true.

Remember everyone God also hates shellfish.

Do I see a wordwide Slut Stoning? Applications for a husbands harem in the planning office? Mass Lobster burnings? Or claims that hetro-conservative christians should not be allowed to marry because they are bringing down the sanctity of the institution of marriage?

No of cource I don't.

Its bigotry, pure and simple. I'm not christian, but I have friends on here that are. I've not problem with that or them. I'm also not gay, I won't ever concider it. Why? Because I find the whole idea of being with another guy icky. I have many gay male friends, and as I've told them: "Kiss, hug, hold hands, whatever. I don't mind. Just don't talk about you two having sex.. I don't need that image." I think that holds true for most couples though, I don't need to think of my friends getting sweaty and riding each other like rodeo bulls. Not something I need to think about.

However, as much you don't like to think about someone doing something, that doesn't mean you should stop them doing it if it doesn't affect you, or hurt other people or themselves.

And that applies equally to religeon, as well as sex and relationships.

So here is my question:

How can you take what you want from a religeous text (any one I'm just using the Bible as an example - Koran, Torah.. Book Of Mormon, doesn't matter which) and hold that up to be sacred, when you willfully ignore the parts that say things you don't like, or think are absurd?

Doesn't that mean there is a problem somewhere with your perception?

So as I wrap this up I want to make it VERY clear, I'm not anti-christian, pro-gay, anti-religeon, or for that matter anti or pro anything. I'm just mystified by stupid people giving stupid reasons for things. My tollerance for stupidity is low which, being online, is posibly a problem. The reason this rant is religeous in nature (and one day I'll spell that world correctly and, more importantly, consistantly correctly) is because it is just to justify a lot of modern idiocy. I'm all for the basic message of "be nice to the world and other people and you'll get a gold star when you die" however that works. Thats a great idea.

Its just a shame more people don't listen to it.

* The U.S. is also one of only 6 countries in the world to sentence children to death. Never mind that almost all religious groups in the United States regard any form of execution as immoral, or that the vast majority of countries in Western Europe, North America and South America (more than 112 nations worldwide) have abandoned capital punishment. The United States is in the same company as Iraq, Iran and China as one of the major advocates and users of capital punishment.
** US Census Board.
*** Barna Research Group's research on divorce circa 21st December 1999.

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
anab1
9th Mar, 2004 18:21 (UTC)
Welcome to America folks. Go live the American Dream, it is only a dream after all.

Lets go have a beer.
darkcryst
9th Mar, 2004 18:41 (UTC)
beer good, beer foamy..
When you making your way over this way?
anab1
9th Mar, 2004 18:49 (UTC)
Re: beer good, beer foamy..
well hopefully soon. I have a fairly good chance at a job up north, but will have to come interview in the next month or so I'd imagine.
anab1
9th Mar, 2004 18:51 (UTC)
Re: beer good, beer foamy..
do you use aolIM or MSN messenger? I'm anab1 on the first and anab1@cox.net on the second.
darkcryst
9th Mar, 2004 18:59 (UTC)
Re: beer good, beer foamy..
MSN only..adding you now ;)
a_muse_d
9th Mar, 2004 20:13 (UTC)
your icon is the face of god.. or at least, i'm sure how (s)he feels, if (s)he exists, at the moment.

your post is well researched. and explains precisely why most US citizens will NOT be voting for this retard in the next election. hopefully enough people won't.. though that can be overruled if he buys out enough of the electoral college with Daddy's money and they vote him back in anyway. turns out our system is rather corrupt, after all.

got room for one more where you live?
a_muse_d
9th Mar, 2004 20:15 (UTC)
another bit..
i didn't vote for the idiot, and i don't plan to in the next election, either.

oh, and i believe my replies above qualify as treason, so if you do have room, let me know soon ;)
darkcryst
9th Mar, 2004 20:33 (UTC)
Re: another bit..
Lol.. plenty of room can be found I'm sure.

And actually the above comment would be able to be admitted as evidence under that patriot act of 'un-american' activities.
a_muse_d
9th Mar, 2004 21:48 (UTC)
Re: another bit..
yeah, i know. fuck 'em.

i'll just throw my mini-Constitution at them with the First Amendment highlighted. and watch them wither.
hinterland
9th Mar, 2004 23:54 (UTC)
Are you talking about homosexual marriage in a church, by an ordained authority, before God, or a homosexual civil marriage by a state institution (other than the church, if applicable)?
darkcryst
10th Mar, 2004 00:53 (UTC)
Neither.

I'm talking about the fact that religion has nothing to do with legal marriage. Nothing.

It was also pointing out the absurdity and hypocrasy of using religious text examples to support a case when they ignore other parts of the text.
rougie
10th Mar, 2004 08:10 (UTC)
They were good points. I wonder if you could help also.

You see, there's this girl I know who is an extremist-christian and she believes in the whole 'no sex before marriage' thing, and I just want to know if there is 'anything I can say' that would make her think against her beliefs.

I know it's hard/impossible, but if you could say just a sentence that relegates the whole thing to the realms of idiocy, this would be acceptable to me :)
darkcryst
10th Mar, 2004 09:23 (UTC)
Well.. thats kind of different.

The no sex before marriage clause actually IS coveredup there though. But that doesn't mean that she's wrong just because you want to get in her pants :P
rougie
10th Mar, 2004 09:45 (UTC)
I have been informed though that your post is invalid as the law of god was given to the jewish people alone, in which case all those laws have nothing to do with you or all americans.

And as to the point of the usa not being a religious state you are also wrong because if you read eric phelps books you will know that this post is jiberrish and that you don't understand a thing about world scale politics.

< This is not me saying this. This is someone else. I'm personally confused on the matter, but still..
darkcryst
10th Mar, 2004 10:16 (UTC)
You can't combat religious stupidity with more religious stupidity.

Of cource it says that for Jews, like Christians are suposedly the one true faith. Once this person moves on from their little insular world we can talk about that more.

Plus.. I understand plenty about 'world scale politics'. Eric Phelp's books are mostly conjecture based on slim facts, and many disputable conclusions. Check out his site http://www.vaticanassassins.org/ to see the rabid stupid nature of most of his claims.

Whoever said this to you is actually quite funny, in a sad disturbed way. Anyone who would use the phrase 'world scale politics' and not understand that there is no seperation, its just the applications that change, obviously doesn't know enough about their subject.

Besides, politics at their core are just self-interested principles by commitee. Anything else tends to be greed, or sematical arguments.
darkcryst
10th Mar, 2004 10:19 (UTC)
Seriously, read that guys site..

I'm crying with shocked laughter at his conspiracy theories here. It would be a great parody if people didn't believe it.
a_muse_d
10th Mar, 2004 15:59 (UTC)
that is all so fucked up.
darkcryst
10th Mar, 2004 19:31 (UTC)
I know! I mean.. wtf?
balinorelle
10th Mar, 2004 15:42 (UTC)
I so didn't vote for him either... and wont in this next election. I think gay and lesbian folk should have equal rights because in no way should state and church come into this argument. I so agree. just another reason I should find a different country to live in... not that it will happen.
darkcryst
10th Mar, 2004 19:33 (UTC)
Well.. the state should come in, but on an equal rights stance.

I mean what wouldthe media say if Islamic groups said that all women should wear veils and tried to write it into the constitution?

But because its christianity.. its taken as normal. Mad crazy ppl I tell you...
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )